Pop Up window for gear ratio changes

[brysny]

Hi Dave,

First a general question, is there a way to let the search function on the forum allow you to search for 3 letter words? Its pretty painful not being able to search for g&m codes.

On to my specific question. On my mill you have to do manual pulley ratio changes. M-codes for gear ratios are M41-M44, but mach3 has stolen the M41 and uses it as a digitizer function or something like that. So right now I am only able to change speed ranges during a tool change, which is not that big of a deal since that is most times when I'd want to change ratios. BUT I can't figure out a way to get a pop out window to remind me or the operator to do the belt change.

Ideally I'd want to have a pause and have a ratio change button flashing like how the manual tool change works, but thats overly fancy. So basically I'd just put in an M00, and then have some special M code or something that pops up a window that says to switch to ratio X or Y.

Is there a simple way to add an Mcode that can pop out a window?

Thanks,
Bryan

[DaveCVI]

Hi,

It’s relatively simple to do what you want using some of mach’s standard programming features. You will have to venture into script programming for mach to do this… but simple scripts are not to hard to figure out.

I’ll point you to the required concepts and topics and then you can play around to see how this all works.

User MCodes:
When mach is executing gcode, any Mcode it sees with a # > 100 is treated as a “user mcode”.

Let’s use M441 as an arbitrarly chosen example mcode. When mach sees M441, mach will look for a file called M441.m1s. Mach will assume that file contains a mach script and execute the script program from the file.

The M441.m1s file will be looked for in
C:\Mach3\Macros\<your running profile name>
(this assumes mach was installed in the default location)

Mach scripts:
The contents of the m441.m1s file can do pretty much anything you want. The mach scripts are little basic language programs that mach runs when the Mcode is encountered.

Two documents give you all the info re writing mach scripts:
The Script language manual (avail via button on the MSM reference page) – this covers the core language for scripts.
The Mach3 Script calls (avail via reference page button); For info on the mach script – this gives all the calls that you can make to mach.

The scripts can be written and debugged using the mach script editor (mach’s menus, operator, VB script editor)

Attached is a simple M441.m1s script that you can use to start with. Copy it into the dir mentioned above.

Test the mcode script:
Go to a MSM page with the MDI line and type M441 into mdi, press enter – you will see the message from the script.

You can now add M441 to a test Gcode file and the same thing will happen when the M441 is run from gcode.

Note: it is good practice to always put user defined mcodes in their own gocde block, one user mcode per block (i.e. one user mcode per line in the gocde file). This will avoid complex problems that can occur re interactions associated with multiple mcodes in a block.

Welcome to the world of mach script programming…. Have fun!

Dave

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[DaveCVI]

Hi,
re the question about the forum search function: I didn't realize that it required a min of 4 chars until you asked. Alas, I don't control the forum, it's just a free forum hosting site that I used when MSM first got started. I looked but this does not see to be something that a forum admin can change.

Dave

[brysny]

Awesome help, thanks Dave. I'll do some work on it and then post what I come up with in case others find it useful.

Bryan

[rogerfries]

Bryan,

Please do post your results! I would find this useful. Thanks

Roger

[brysny]

Well I tried to get fancy and have the script both pop up a message to physically change the pulley and then to also update the value in Mach for which pulley ratio it got changed to. Unfortunately I quickly found that it looks like all the MSM stuff are compiled files an not text scripts. So I got into the tools for how screens are done and buttons and realized it was not a small project.

So I bailed out and just went with the simple popup message. I made an M441 and M442 file for the 2 speed ranges and modified my post for my cam package (HSMexpress) for manual NC commands and just had a pulldown option to pick Hi or Lo ratio and the post would then put an M441 or 2 into the g-code.

So the scripts are very basic.

Dave, one other item I tried was to make a user script to load the probe tool and turn on tool length offset. Specifically I tried to do the following sequence: G49, T250 M06, G43. I do a G49 first because it seems like sometimes mach flakes and doesn't change the offset value if it was already on. The problem seems to be thought that the M06 runs another script (an MSM one that is compiled and not editable I think), and thus either ends my user script before it completes or it does the G43 before it gets very far in the M06 script (not sure if scripts can run parallel). Ideally a simple button on the probing page that would do a tool change and then a G43 would be great. But if there is a simple way to get my script to do it that would be fine too.

Thanks,
Bryan

[DaveCVI]

Hi,
Well, at the start of this thread, I steered you to some initial info to introduce you to mach’s script capabilities. It now seems that you want to tackle more complex sctipt tasks – so I’ll offer some more pointers.

Feb 1, 2013 17:24:36 GMT -8 brysny said:

Well I tried to get fancy and have the script both pop up a message

This we have already seen how to do.

Feb 1, 2013 17:24:36 GMT -8 brysny said:

Well and then to also update the value in Mach for which pulley ratio it got changed to.

This can be done via mach’s scripts also. Look up the “Set Pulley” call in the mach programmers reference manual.

Feb 1, 2013 17:24:36 GMT -8 brysny said:

Well Unfortunately I quickly found that it looks like all the MSM stuff are compiled files an not text scripts. So I got into the tools for how screens are done and buttons and realized it was not a small project.

Yes, the MSM scripts are compiled. Conceptually, the MSM scripts are extensions of Mach and as such are not intended for modification by end users. The MSM scripts, particularly those that handle MSM’s handing of M6 are not simple. Allowing end user modification of MSM scripts would create a support burden that MSM pricing won’t support. However, an MSM user can do any customization that can be done without MSM – it’s just that the technical techniques for doing so are different.

If you want to extend the actions associated with the processing of the M6 M-code, I’ll refer you to section 15 of the MSM user manual to start learning about customizing MSM. In particular, there are event hooks supplied by MSM to enable you to hook user scripts into the M6 handling – see section 15.9.1. of the user manual.

You can easily extend the actions of M6 by simply supplying the script that you want run as part of MSM’s m6 processing. This does not require the addition or alterations of any existing buttons (which is also available when using MSM) .

Feb 1, 2013 17:24:36 GMT -8 brysny said:

So I bailed out and just went with the simple popup message. I made an M441 and M442 file for the 2 speed ranges and modified my post for my cam package (HSMexpress) for manual NC commands and just had a pulldown option to pick Hi or Lo ratio and the post would then put an M441 or 2 into the g-code.

So the scripts are very basic.

Dave, one other item I tried was to make a user script to load the probe tool and turn on tool length offset. Specifically I tried to do the following sequence: G49, T250 M06, G43. I do a G49 first because it seems like sometimes mach flakes and doesn't change the offset value if it was already on. The problem seems to be thought that the M06 runs another script (an MSM one that is compiled and not editable I think), and thus either ends my user script before it completes or it does the G43 before it gets very far in the M06 script (not sure if scripts can run parallel). Ideally a simple button on the probing page that would do a tool change and then a G43 would be great. But if there is a simple way to get my script to do it that would be fine too.

Thanks,
Bryan

Now you are starting to get into more complicated script topics. Earlier in the thread I mentioned that it’s a good idea to put one user defined mcode per block as it avoids some scripting (synchronization) problems.

I’d guess that you may have attempted to write a simple script similar to this:

Code(“G49 T250 M06 G43”) – while that’s a reasonable first attempt, it’s going to cause problems that you probably didn’t expect. Let’s break that down into a multiple block version:

Code(“G49”)
Code(“T250 M06”)
Code(“G43”)

You probably expect each of the above lines to get executed in order and for each line to complete before the next line is started…. But mach won’t do that for you…. To understand this, you’ll need to know that mach implements M6 handling as a call to multiple user level M6 scripts (typically M6start and M6end when in stop&Wait tool change mode). But the above code fragment creates a recursive call from mach back into mach – and mach was not written to be either recursive or re-entrant, mach provides no script sync capabilities, and in general mach’s m6 handing is one of the most complex (error prone) areas of mach. Nesting mcode calls gets you quickly into a complex area of mach script programming (if the script writer is not up to doing things like inventing semaphore capabilities from scratch, then this an an area where you probably don't want to be).

Consider:
Now you are running a gcode file, it encounters a M441 (for example); you have now caused mach to leave the gcode interpreter and call a user mcode. This causes mach to start a new thread to run the M441. Mach will wait for this new thread to complete before continuing the original gcode block. But…. The new thread starts running and then it does the G49 – ok. The G49 is pretty fast, so it usually executes before the T250 M6 block gets called – but not always. You as the script programmer need to insert a sync wait step after the G49.

You want something more like this:
Code(“G49”)
<insert code to wait for G49 tom complete before going on>
Code(“T250 M06”)
Code(“G43”)

Now life gets really complicated…. You hit the code:T250 M6 and another new async thread is started…. (we are now 3 levels deep) and then that thread calls M6start and then M6end and each of those may do arbitrary user calls…. To make matters worse, Mach does not treat M6 as an atomic operation – the code call will return from the T250 M6 line before the M6 processing is complete! You now have multiple threads running in parallel – so generally the G43 is going to get executed sometime during the M6 execution period…. The result is not going to be pretty – it’s easy to crash a machine this way.

So we now want
Code(“G49”)
<insert code to wait for G49 tom complete before going on>
Code(“T250 M06”)
<insert code to wait for M6 to complete>
Code(“G43”)

The <insert code to wait for M6 to complete> is a real problem, mach does not provide a call to wait for that condition. Yes, if you beat on mach long enough you can discover ways to accomplish this… I had to invent one for MSM.

However, rather than delve down into this level of mach complexity, I’d suggest that you not make a user mcode (Ex m441) invoke another mcode (M6). Avoiding nesting Mcodes will make life much simpler. And I expect that nested mcodes are not needed for what you want to accomplish – take a look a the hooks that MSM offers for extending M6 processing – they will probably let you do what you want and MSM already will take care of the synchronization needed when calling from the MSM m6 handing into the user scripts that you supply (this is part of the MSM M6 event hooks).

Dave

[brysny]

Woah, thats sticky.

Sounds like ideally I should just not have a script that calls another script. So the cleanest would be to just modify the user M6End to check if its T250 and then set G43. But that means no button and not even a shorter m-code.

A slightly nicer version, but getting a little messy I guess, is to do as you suggested and have a M250 script that does G49, then sets a flag/variable for probe tool change, then waits to ensure completion and then has a T250 M06. Then in the user M6End I could have it check fo the flag and if true could do a G49.

Does that sound like a reasonable approach?

Thanks,
Bryan

[DaveCVI]

Let's back up a bit and examine what you're trying to accomplish...

I'm unsure as to why you want to check for a specific tool # (250) and then turn on TLO...? Generally, I'd think that you want TLO on or not;
I'm not understanding why TLO active is being coupled to a single Tool #.
Given TLO values in the tool table for my tools, I have my posts do
T# M6
G43 H# (see other posts about not leaving out the H word for a G43 block).

If I mount a tool manually, I do the above gcode via MDI.

Dave

P.S. I may be a bit slow in responding for a few days as I've been summoned for jury duty starting tomorrow

[brysny]

Basically as you said my posts do a T# M6 and then G43 H#. Then for manual tool changes I type that in. The only manual tool change that I do a lot of though is sticking in the probe head. I haven't been able to make sense of when and why but I've found that sometimes mach will not actually update the TLO when I enter it manually (never had it do it while running g-code except during a 'run from here' where it seems to often get confused and will have G43 Hx but even though x shows as the current offset when you cycle G49/G43 the Z changes). So to be safe I always type:
G49
T250 M06
G43 H250
Which is kind of a pain to type in 20x a day (almost all my stuff in 1 offs so I probe a lot). Especially since every so often I make a type. So my ideal solution is a new button on the probing page that does the above lines of code AND even skips the confirm tool change button. But that turned out to be quite the rabbit hole so I was just wanting to simplify down to typing M250 and have a user script do it.

At this point I've probably spent more time than I'll ever save, but I've learned a bit along the way so its worth it.

Bryan

[DaveCVI]

Bryan,

If you want to continue down the learning path, here as some steps that will get you close to what you want (all but the skipping of the cycle start during the tool change - that's necessary for human interaction during stop & wait tool change mode).

1) refer to the MSM manual re how to make a custom MSM screen set by cloning the existing screen set.
2) use machscreen to put a plain old button (ignore making it look visually like an MSM button for this exercise) - put it on the user exts page as an easy place to play around (that's what that page is for). Call the button "mount probe".
3) put the script code from the attached file into that button (can be done with machscreen)

The "mount probe" button will cause your machine to mount whatever tool number you have set as the probe tool.

Dave

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