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Post by RichKuzmack on Jun 2, 2012 8:33:31 GMT -8
Dave, I have my MSM Pro license with an activated installation of Mach3/MachStdMill on a largely dedicated Windows XP Pro system (includes a few other work flow applications). The backup procedure here is to regularly create a complete drive image clone of a computer’s system drive. Restoration of such an image to a new hard drive needs to be seamless for the procedure to provide protection. It does not always work as intended: a recent restoration to a larger hard drive (smaller replacement drives are getting hard to find!) triggered Microsoft to require Reactivation of my Windows XP. I really hope that MSM activation will survive through a cloned system drive replacement since that failure mode does not provide an advance notice to deactivate MSM, . . . and it needs to be tolerant of new drive technologies that will evolve during a drive’s lifetime. This is one you are stuck with because system drives WILL fail without notice. My questions are: “What system configuration changes is MSM activation sensitive to?” “When do I need to deactivate my installation of MSM before making changes?” The possibilities are extensive, from memory upgrade, display adapter change, processor upgrade, . . . to motherboard replacement. Yes, at some point it IS a different computer, but when? A bit of guidance in this area would be helpful. And then there is the issue of doing an upgrade. The documentation never says that activation is persistent through an upgrade, but it does tell me that MSM 1.x is going to be removed by MSM 2.x when it installs. One might assume from the silence on deactivation that it is not necessary to deactivate MSM 1.x before allowing MSM 2.x to remove it, but do you bet the farm on that? Well, fortunately your pricing is quite reasonable so losing an activation would just be an annoyance  I should add that I like what I have seen and read about MSM, although I am hardly fluent in it yet. I fully expect that there are features that I won’t become aware of until a need for them arises in an actual project. Thank you for such a fine product. Rich Kuzmack Rich@Kuzmack.com Mach3 3.43.37 MSM 1.1.22 Windows XP Pro PP (PMDX 122) |
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Post by DaveCVI on Jun 2, 2012 13:47:28 GMT -8
Hi Rich, Installation of MSM is covered in two places: the readme file and chapter 16 of the user manual. Chapter 16 of the manual also covers activation and deactivation. A key concept is that Installation and activation are two separate and pretty much independent things. I'm curious if you have looked at the documentation references - if so, I'd like to know any places where it was not clear - that way I can try to improve the docs. In any case, I'll try to answer your questions (typing on a mobile device so please excuse typos etc). The algorithms used in MSM are a pretty typical approach of looking at hardware changes and how often they happen. you could swap out every component (in theory) in a system and never need to reactivate the system - if you do the parts one at a time, over enough elapsed days. "poof I'm instantly all different parts" will end up with MSM saying "whoa, this is not my home"... The short answer re "when,not how" is to always deactivate MSM if you are going to change a major amount of hdw in the system - deactivating lets the license server know that there is another activation that can be reused. It never hurts to take this approach when rebuilding systems. Note that you can always re-activate MSM on the same hardware. In fat his is sometimes done to force MSM to go talk to the license server and get updated information (Like a new updates licensed thru date). Installing and uninstalling MSM on the same hardware can go on all day long as many times as you want (and I've spent days doing just that in testing) and you'll never need to reactivate as part of the install process. This is why you can install MSM 2.0 over 1.x and not have eto worry about deactivation etc. OK, yes some time, a PC will die for someone and they won't be able to deactivate MSM in that case. I've also had people format a HDD, swap mother boards (which tends to change everything these days) - and yes, that results in the same problem. If it happens to you, don't rush out to buy a new MSM license - just contact CVI and let us know what happened. (Ok, if you really want to buy another license, I'll let you  ) The situation has come up about a half dozen times in the last two years. For hardware failures I've just adjusted the license server and the user has then activated the new PC. For the "I forgot to do it" case - I've done the same - after asking a user to write 10 times on a blackboard "I'll try not to forget again". ;D Frankly, we realize stuff happens, and we don't want users to feel stuck so we just do a manual fix of the situation for them. Now if someone starts calling us everyday for a week saying "it happened again" - well,in that case, we may start asking more questions... So far MSM users have been a buch of nice folks and we've not had to worry about it much. Dave |
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Post by RichKuzmack on Jun 3, 2012 19:28:53 GMT -8
Hi Dave, Thank you for your very helpful reply. It confirmed my feeling that the right answer to “when” is “always” if system configuration is being changed. It also added an important ‘slack variable’ to the logic – “contact CVI” provides for solutions that the documentation does not. It was the logic in the documentation that prompted me to post my questions. So, yes, I read the documentation references and in general what is said is clear, but what is not said is still up for grabs To suggest what I think should be added I will propose new language, which you are free to reject, modify, or accept, as you wish. In the README, Section 4.2 Activation is just a pointer to the User Manual but it provides an opportunity to introduce an idea or two. I suggest: “Activation is the process by which a trial installation is converted into a licensed installation, or a deactivated installation is restored to licensed service after a move from one PC to another or after system configuration changes are performed on a deactivated installation’s PC.” “Activation or deactivation requires interaction with the 24/7 online license service. This interaction can either be direct (“Online activation”) or indirect via another PC (“Proxy Activation”). Activation and deactivation of a licensed copy of MachStdMill is documented in the User Manual.” In the User Manual, I suggest that the advice you provided in your reply could be added to the indicated paragraph in Section 16.1.4 Uninstall / Deactivation considerations: “If you want to “move” an installation to a different PC, you need to deactivate MachStdMill installations from the machine you are “moving the license from”; this will allow you another installation with the license to use on the “new PC”. That “new PC” might be completely different hardware of course, but it might also be the same PC to which some configuration changes are being made. The safest approach would be to deactivate the installation before making the changes to the system and then reactivate the installation to the new configuration.” You may want to continue handling the catastrophic cases quietly on the side as you have been doing. On the other hand, there is value to your customers in knowing that you’re there even as they try their best to never need it. So you might want to find a way to make this policy explicit in the User Manual. It’s just a thought. Rich Kuzmack Rich@Kuzmack.com Mach3 3.43.37 MSM 1.1.22 Windows XP Pro PP (PMDX 122) |
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Post by DaveCVI on Jun 4, 2012 6:47:36 GMT -8
Rich,
Thanks for the text suggestions - I've added ti to a todo list for my next pass thru the documentation.
Dave
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Post by gdmarsh on Jun 28, 2012 9:29:16 GMT -8
Dave,
I may have fouled things up along the way, but I just loaded another copy of MSM to my desktop & when trying to activate it I'm told there are no activations left. I checked and noticed my subscription & support needed to be extended so I purchased an update, but still no activations available. I don't remember ever loading MSM & erasing it on the desktop previously, but I do think I've loaded & reloaded it to my Mill computer. As it stands I have 1 running copy on my Mill & only the Trial Version on my desktop in the office. I need to access the probing functions in the office to set-up my swing out TP. Any help on where I've gone wrong?
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Post by DaveCVI on Jun 28, 2012 10:33:45 GMT -8
Hi, An MSM license allows two, simultaneous activations and thus one MSM license can be used to run two PCs with MSM. This is independent of the number of installations of the software (e.g. you can install MSM a 100 times on 100 different PCs, but a single license will only activate any two of the 100 at any given time. The message "no activations left" says that the license server already has two PCs activated for the license. The choices then become: 1) deactivate an existing installation (decreasing the activated PC count and allowing you to activate a different PC), 2) purchase additional licenses to run more PCs, 3) plead the case that CVI should deactivate an installation for you (for cases where an activated PC died etc). I'll contact you by direct email as I sense you want to plead case 3...  Dave |
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