User guidance re TLO and hardware options

[DaveCVI]

Some guidance for users trying to wrap their heads around
the various choices of TLO technique and MSM supported optional hardware.

MachStdMill supports all the possible combinations of
a) At least three different TLO techniques,
b) Gage blocks,
c) Two different touch plates, and
d) An active probe tool.

That makes for a lot of combinations and attendant complexity.
Trying to explain and document all this in the user manual is a non-trivial task.

Frankly, If I were doing MSM from scratch, I’d leave out several of the current combinations.

Why then are they in MSM today you wonder?

Well, due to MSM’s history of being designed to replace the Mach 1024 screen set for Mach V4, an original design requirement was that MSM had to include all the weird little things that had already been stuffed into Mach over the years.

The nature of software products is such that taking something thing out tends to upset someone when “you’re not supporting my favorite feature”.

But if you’re new to MSM, you tend to wonder, what should I be doing? Which of these combinations of TLO techniques & Optional hardware will really be the most useful to me?

My recent exercise to improve the documentation for the TLO=WCZ0 mode made me think about this again. I decided to offer my opinion in an effort to help the new comer to MSM make an informed choice…

In order of increasing expense:

1) Forget all about Probes and touch plates, just stick to doing what you’ve been doing before you ever heard of MSM.
a. Pro:
i. Least hardware effort and cost.
ii. This is what the MSM Personal Edition supports.

b. Con:
i. You keep doing work for the control instead of having the control work for you.

2) Add a single TCP TP to the system.
a. Pro:
i. This gets you the ability to measure Tools as part of a tool change.
1. This is probably the most desired ability of a beginning-intermediate mach user.
2. You can now handle mixed RH and NRH holders.
ii. It’s cheap. The cost is about $2 for a piece of PCB and some wire.
iii. One TP input maps to the one Mach probe input an does not require the electronics ndded to interface both a probe and TP at the same time.

b. Recommended TLO technique:
i. Master Tool Mode!
1. MTM is much easier to use with the TCP TP than TLO=WCZ0.
2. Master Tool Mode (MTM) is so superior to TLO=WCZ0, that MSM was designed for this with the TCP TP.

c. Con:
i. You need the Professional edition of MSM to get Probing operation support. Once you are using MSM Pro, you are all set (since the control support for both the TCP TP and MTM is built in).

3) Add a mobile TP for use with the TCP TP.
a. Pro:
i. This lets you stop using gage blocks and manual touch operations.
ii. Still cheap. The 2nd TP may cost you nothing – the first piece of PCB you bought for the TCP TP probably has enough left over to make the Mobile TP.
iii. Two TPs can be interfaced easily to the single mach probe input as they are wired “in parallel”.

b. Recommended TLO technique:
i. Master Tool Mode!

4) Add an active 3d probe
a. Pro:
i. You suddenly gain all the MSM probing abilities. This will make your job setup effort immensely easier.

b. Con:
i. Cost is dependant on the probe tool you get. The range is $100 on up.
ii. Now you need the control electronics changes to interface the TPS and Probe to the single mach probe input simultaneously.

c. Recommended TLO technique:
i. Master Tool Mode with the Probe Tool being the master tool.


OK, do you see the pattern here?
MTM mode is generally preferred over TLO=WCZ0 mode.

TLO=WCZ0 was only included due to user requests, it is not the easiest mode to use, it is not the simplest mode to use, and it is not technically the best mode to use.

Frankly the requests for TLO-WCZ0 this were motivated by “this is what I’m used to doing manually, I want to keep doing it, please automate it for me” – but that's a classic case of using old techniques with a new tool (the TCP TP) which just negates much of the utility of the new tool.

Use TLO=WCZ0 if you must, but honestly, MTM is the easier and better choice.

Dave

[elementtech]

Thanks Dave, This is great! If only I had read this 3 weeks ago

Sounds like MTM is the go then, I got my electronics working to allow the TPs & the probe to work together, couldn't find a shorting jack so I just leave the probe plugged in the whole time & sit it in its rack on the wall when not in use.

(If any newbie like myself that would rather see a photo & a basic drawing/sketch rather than a circuit diagram of what we have done to get the TPs & Probe working together, let me know & I'll post a couple of photos & what parts we used to do it)

Makes sense to use the probe as the MT & yes you are quite right, set up with the probe is awesome, so quick & easy!

Thanks again
Dave

[woffler]

Hi elementtech ,i sure would appreciate those pic's ! i am not very good at electronics but i am improving i cant make sense of the schematic are there three of those chip's or just one and what goes to what pin on the chip , i could use some help please !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[woffler]

Here are some pi'c of wiring for the probe and touch plate circuits for someone that may need them.

[woffler]

Here we go can not preview post if you do it will drop your attachment.

Attachments:

[woffler]

And here is another these were drawn for me by a friend named John on another forum and he deserves the credit!

Attachments:

[DaveCVI]

Sept 8, 2011 17:10:53 GMT -8 woffler said:

And here is another these were drawn for me by a friend named John on another forum and he deserves the credit!

Well.... Whoever John is can have credit for the hand drawn schematic, but the 2nd one you posted is the circuit from the MSM User manual, section 6.1.3, page 129.... It appears to be an earlier version of the diagram that was in an earlier manul rev and/or posted earlier

No big deal, I just tend to recognize things I drew.

Dave

[woffler]

The intention was not to give you credit for the drawing,the other one was redrawn for explanation purposes and was not an earlier drawing . We appreciate the drawing in the manual but further explanation was need for me to understand it .As i am not a electronic's wizard i had never used the chip before and needed further explanation .This is the first circuit i have ever used a chip in and it was a nice learning experience and one that i am sure will benefit others also ,you may want to sell the board already made up,you could be missing some further sale's revenue. Just a thought

[DaveCVI]

Yeah, the schematic in the manual is something I have rather mixed feelings about. It suffers in that if you are electronics conversant the schematic is obvious and you don't need it, if you're not an electronics guy, the schematic is not enough to blindly build a board... and if the manual had nothing, I'd get a lot of questions asking what was needed...


FYI - we decided against making and selling the boards - due to tax and paperwork issues. CVI is set up as a consulting and software business - and we don;t ship tangible good or have to tack physical inventory etc. The moment we ship the first hard product, we incur a whole host of things that have to be done periodically and the overhead would wipe out any profit from the boards.

Dave